A Quick Argument Against Total Public Transportation.

"Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis" (Dwhite95) 02/20/2016 at 14:25 • Filed to: None

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During peak times this is what busiest of the bus stops at our downtown campus looks like, if not worse, actually its generally worse by the time the next bus gets there. The downtown campus also has a 4 story parking garage and multiple surface lots, so its not even totally bus dependent. On top of that the classes that are centered around this area are business, engineering, CJ plus a hand full of others, and we only have 25,000 people that go here. Where the real problem comes in is that the bus on this route comes every 5-7 minutes, so you cant even say that frequency is the issue. So if during peak times a well organized system of buses will struggle with just a portion of a medium-large sized university, how is it supposed to work for a city of millions?

For reference with the amount of people that are here it will fill a standard sized bus, including the aisles, shoulder-to-shoulder and leave people waiting for the next bus.

Klaus Schmoll > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:30

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While buses might not be ideal, there are other solutions.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Klaus Schmoll 02/20/2016 at 14:33

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Even with expanded systems like rail there would be issues if a city of millions during rush hour without at least some cars involved to ease the stress on the system during peak usage.

djmt1 > Klaus Schmoll 02/20/2016 at 14:36

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Alternatively for much less.

Why double decker buses aren’t more of a thing outside of London and Hong Kong baffles me.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:37

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So you run more busses during peak times, or have more stops a few streets over or whatever, which actually takes even more cars off the road resulting in faster average speeds, more fuel efficiency, etc. etc.? Just because it’s not being done correctly now doesn’t mean it can’t be done correctly.

Also having ridden the NYC subway for 10 years as a commuter it always seemed like having the system be near capacity at peak times it sort of how you’d want to design it, right? (For reference, NYC has more people commuting than your college and most use some form of public transportation.)

For Sweden > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:37

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Counter-argument: you’re just a reactionary shill for the bourgeois.

Berang > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:38

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Well the most obvious problem is that university classes all tend to get out at the same time. And they get out at the same time that other people are going to classes. It wouldn’t be any better if every person took their own car (indeed it would probably be worse) - heck you could put everybody on minibikes and bicycles, and you’d still get log jams.

Most of the real world though doesn’t operate on such a rigid schedule.

MGS315 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:38

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Come to London UK. Just try to negotiate a way to drive in and park cheaper and faster than a train from the suburbs. I’m including two changes on the underground along with an average of a 10 minute walk too.

If we all jumped in cars (as I have to do at times due to the necessity of transporting a huge amount of tools and materials) the entire city would come to a standstill. In truly world stage cities roads are necessary but so is an actual decent public transport network.

Klaus Schmoll > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:39

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Well, imagine what would happen on the roads if all those people at the bus stop would drive cars.

Leon711 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 14:42

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I only live about 7 miles from work, that’s two stops on the train and I could also get the bus. I’d have to walk a mile and a half to the train station, and pay a ridiculous fare to get there and it would take about 50 mins. The bus stop I’d need to go to, to get the right bus is a 10 minute walk then I’d have to pay more than the train and the whole thing would take maybe 40 mins.

Alternatively, I could take a 20 minute drive. A drive that when consider all running costs on a per mile basis (insurance, tax, fuel, servicing, MOT test) still works out cheaper than either of the public transport options.

What incentive is there to take a bus?

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Klaus Schmoll 02/20/2016 at 14:43

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Oh, I’m not saying kill public transportation. We have a massive issue with space in the parking lots here too. I’m saying that going to either a total kill public transportation or kill all cars would be bad idea.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S 02/20/2016 at 14:45

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The buses already come every 5-7 minutes at the moment, the bus routes are contracted through the existing infrastructure owned by the city to the tune of about $4 million dollars annually, so the current system already incurs a large cost. And on top of that I’m not sure that in a city 300,000 people that they can afford to expand the system to more than every 5-7 minutes for one route. That being said, I’d say that the system is above capacity during peak usage.

They are toying around with the idea of putting a BRT on the route, but it wouldnt but up and running until sometime in the 2020's if they did.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > For Sweden 02/20/2016 at 14:51

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Potentially, but I have been living this life for 3 years now. As much as I love shoving people out of the way on a daily basis in the hopes to get a seat for the 30 minute ride it has grown a bit old.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Berang 02/20/2016 at 14:53

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Things would be worse if it was all cars, the parking downtown is just as bad. I’m not advocating for the dismantlement of the public transportation system, this is simply an argument against an all or nothing approach.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > MGS315 02/20/2016 at 14:54

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Like I’ve mentioned in a handful of other comments I’m not advocating for the dismantlement of the public transportation system, this is simply an argument against an all or nothing approach that I’ve seen some people throwing around recently.

MGS315 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 15:05

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Fair enough, agreed. For many businesses a pure public transport route is not at all feasible so I will definitely agree with you, although I may fall on the side of more public transport. Mostly so we’ve less vehicles to ruin our enjoyment and get the obviously non-drivers out the way!

Klaus Schmoll > djmt1 02/20/2016 at 15:23

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Heights of bridges?

kanadanmajava1 > Klaus Schmoll 02/20/2016 at 15:43

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I’ve got even better idea.

lunr > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 17:21

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Is that Fulton underneath the S-curve?

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > lunr 02/20/2016 at 17:38

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That is Fulton, right under the overpass between the two GV buildings.

NJAnon > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 20:11

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Um, when you can figure out a way to tell people:

“Hey listen, uh you can’t drive your car no more. You’ll be taking public transportation. It won’t drop you near your house like you used to do with your car. In all likely-hood, you’ll be taking more time out of your day using this public transportation than using your car. So yeah, we’re cool?”

I want to point out that places in Asia that have updated or improved their public transportation still have issues...like mash people into the trains so much that it hurts issues.

lunr > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 02/20/2016 at 23:39

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Yeesh. That is worse than what I saw before winter.

I heard The Rapid got a $50 million grant to build a rapid-transit line from GV downtown to GV Allendale. Makes me wonder why they need that much to make the bus travel the 12 miles faster than it already does at every 7 minutes.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > lunr 02/21/2016 at 00:47

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Its mostly a size thing if I had to guess. Like I said, the buses are many times very overcrowded and BRT buses are larger.

At least I’m moving downtown next year so I’ll have to deal with the bus less than I do now.

KirkyV > djmt1 02/22/2016 at 12:50

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They’re all over the South-East outside of London, though I have always been mystified about how rare they seem to be in other countries.

djmt1 > KirkyV 02/22/2016 at 13:33

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Routemasters or double deckers in general?

KirkyV > djmt1 02/22/2016 at 14:02

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Double deckers in general—these, mainly:

(picture’s from my town’s central bus station)

You see the occasional Routemaster, but I think they’re mainly used for touristy stuff.